- N’A the albatross of anti-corruption war •Fulani herdsmen menace, indices of national crisis
- Names Incompetent ministers in Buhari’s Cabinet…Says Fashola, Adeosun are underperforming
Debo Adeniran is the Executive Chairman, Coalition Against Corrupt Leaders (CACOL), a human rights, community-based, and civil society with focus on anti-corruption agenda across Nigeria. CACOL sets for itself the task of using any available means to cause relevant authorities to probe and bring to book all corrupt leaders both in public and private institutions. Prior to becoming the Executive Chairman of CACOL, Debo was the Pioneer Secretary-General, Committee for the Defence of Human Rights (CDHR); First General secretary, Gani Fawehinmi Solidarity Association (GFSA) and Inaugural Assistant General Secretary, Campaign for Democracy (CD) and many others. In this interview with The New Diplomat’s Business and Public Policy Editor; OLAMILEKAN OKEOWO, Adenikan spoke on how the National Assembly will be the albatross of President Muhammadu Buhari’s administration, incompetent ministers, how Nigeria got into recession and sundry issues. EXCERPTS
A couple of the president’s men have been fingered in one graft issue or the other, for an administration that is hell-bent on fighting corruption, what do you think this portends?
The way the fight against corruption is going and the discovery that some of the president’s men have been fingered in some corruption mess is not strange to us. Some members of his cabinet like Rotimi Amaechi, Babatunde Fashola, Ogbonnaya Onu and the likes have been fingered in corruption mess. It is not that the president does not hear about the complaints on his men. He might not just want to start his anti-corruption war with them. One thing is clear, the president and his vice have not been indicted for any corruption and it does not seem that he will condone corruption as he has repeatedly said that he will not allow corrupt people to remain in his government. The Economics and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) has also come out to say that all those fingered are under their searchlight. It then depends on the anti-corruption agencies like the EFCC, ICPC to really dig deep and find evidence of corruption to nail them.
Whether we like it or not, there is a little ideological difference between the PDP and the APC. In the fight against corruption and the way the present administration is going about it, I believe if he had done anything less, we would have been utterly disappointed, we would not be having the needed change that we clamored for. We must also understand that when you fight corruption, if fights back.
While acknowledging President Muhammadu Buhari fight against corruption, he must also know that that is not what governance is all about.
On nepotism, all those who are affected by every decisions taken by the leader will always accuse the leader of being nepotistic. We only want to urge the regime to be more focused, to do things faster than before and Nigerians will know that the pain and pang was only for a while if the regime is able to achieve the desirables
What do you think of the competence of some of his cabinet members?
Before the president inaugurated his cabinet, CACOL had fingered some of those he nominated to the National Assembly for ministerial post and that some of them had shown incompetence in their previous posts. Some of them actually performed more on the pages of the newspapers and we warned him about it. We specifically mentioned the former Governor of Lagos State, Babatunde Fashola. Yes, some would argue that he performed well based on what they read in the media, but, we went into the field to verify the projects that he claimed to have done and we found out that most of them are not where he said they were.
We published our findings in two volumes and warned the president that using somebody like that as a minister will spell doom for the administration; he will only speak more and do less. This is also someone who was alleged to have upgraded his personal website to the tune of N78.3million and when he was queried about it at the ministerial screening, he said he didn’t sign the cheque which is a clever way of repudiating one’s responsibility.
We also identified the Minister of Finance, Kemi Adeosun, and that what she did in Ogun State was nothing to write home about. She didn’t show adequate competence in the way she managed the economy of the state. There are areas where the economy of the state could have been made more buoyant. Areas like Sango Otta, which is basically an industrial area, which could have been developed thereby making the economy of the area more buoyant was neglected.
Areas where revenue could have been generated were made unproductive and we said instead of double-taxing the people, you can ensure that production level is made more buoyant so that people can buy goods and thereby more industries can be sited in the area. But instead of looking at the productive sector, they were busy looking at the taxes they can get from individuals that are already over-taxed by the excruciating conditions under which they were living.
And we warned that if such a person was taken to the federal level, it was going to compound the trouble of Nigeria rather than alleviate it, and that is what we are experiencing. Instead of the economy of the country to improve it is rather plummeting. We ran into recession not because we do not have the wherewithal to ensure that our economy boomed but because we underrated the incompetence of those who are handling our economy.
What do you think is responsible for the recession the country is currently facing and how has it affected the country?
The monetary and fiscal policies were awkward to the extent that there is no machineries put in place to manage and control the inflow and outflow of cash within the economy. There is inconsistency in the way the foreign exchange is managed. If you look at the policies today, they say don’t deposit foreign currency, but you cannot withdraw it; tomorrow it is another thing. The real sector cannot get foreign exchange at the official quarters and you go back and sell the same scarce foreign exchange to those who will not use it for anything productive.
All of these inconsistencies are as a result of incompetence on the part of the handlers of the economy.
No foreign investors will want to come into a country where their policies are somersaulting. We only hope that the economy will get back on its footing as the vice president has promised. All those incompetence threw the government off-balance and the administration could no longer focus on the business of governance.
What do you have to say about insinuations in some quarters that there are moves to Islamize Nigeria — especially due to some appointments that have been made which are believed to be favouring northern Muslims?
I don’t share that sentiment. Constitutionally, Nigeria is a secular state which means we don’t have to consider religions when we are talking about national issues. It isn’t the same thing with the issue of federal character in the constitution. There is nowhere in the constitution where it is stated that there must be equality in the sharing of the religion in appointments. So, if anybody is accusing the president of trying to Islamize the country, they are just playing politics.
On the issue of appointing northerners into key position, we should understand that there is the possibility of him working with those he knows so well and most of the people he had known most of his life were northerners, what should matter to us should be competence. He is the chief accounting officer of his regime, every failure is his failure. What we should look at is the quality of the minds of those he is working with and their commitment. Primordial sentiments ought not to be brought to the fore. Also remember that there is no provision in the constitution that says whoever is representing a state must be either Christian or Muslim. For example, in the National Assembly today, we have more Muslims than Christians, why is nobody carrying placards to protest against it.
Do you have faith in the administration of President Muhammadu Buhari to successfully run the affairs of this country?
Faith is a very strong word and I don’t predict the future. I just take issues the way they come. I have in the past expressed fear and despondency because it is only the president and his vice that stands out and maybe some very few who has not soiled their fingers in the puddle of corruption. People like the Minister of State for Petroleum, Ibe Kachikwu; Minister of Information, Lai Mohammadu. Yes, some might call him a liar but propaganda is part of politics and the Minister of Agriculture, Audu Ogbeh though there is a perceived sense of incompetence with the way he is going about his job.
I am not going to talk to you about faith. President Muhammadu Buhari will succeed only if the National Assembly gives him the needed support which I am not sure they would as they have a corruption baggage or the other dangling on their necks. So they might not want to uphold or support any good law that will expose them. In fact, what the National Assembly is doing cannot help Buhari to achieve his aims of ridding the country of corruption. Instead of making the existing laws stronger to make it easy for the law enforcement agencies to apprehend, try and get deterrent convictions for corrupt elements, the lawmakers are weakening all the anti-corruption and regulatory agencies.
Look at what they have done to the Code of Conduct Bureau, and the Code of Conduct Tribunal. They brought them under their own purview which is against the provision of the constitution. Ministries, Departments and Agencies (MDA’s) are supposed to be under direct supervision of the executive arm of government. The National Assembly is supposed to make, amend law and play oversight functions, instead, they are taking over some functions that do not belong to them. What we are appealing to the president not to do is to assent to the bill, so they should go ahead and veto it and watch how Nigerians will react. They can veto the bill, but Nigerians are not likely to take it easy with them, because what they are doing is trying to emasculate the principle of Separation of Powers and Checks and Balances.
If they succeed in doing this, they will take more powers from the executive, and you will find that we are teetering towards the unitary system of government that we are running away from which will eventually make us a “Banana Republic”. The National Assembly is the albatross of the anti-corruption war; they see themselves as being the targets because most of them are culprits or their friends are. If we take out the clog in the wheel of the anti-corruption war in the mould of the National Assembly, then we are going to have a smooth sail. If they give Buhari all the support that he needs, then he will succeed.
Are you not surprised that some political appointees are rejecting their nominations?
It is because they know that public offices are no longer profitable — as they used to be. There won’t be opportunity for corruption any longer. For those who have enriched themselves from proceeds of corruption, they will want to conceal their ill-gotten wealth and some of the nominees are somehow related to some of those who are perceived to be corrupt, they won’t be able to shield their relatives who are corrupt. That is the reason why they are rejecting the positions. And in a way, this is good for us as it will allow innocent Nigerians who are unsung and unheard to make inroads into government and since they are not used to the larger-than-life image of the average Nigerian politician, they will be able to cope and comport themselves within the limit of the allowances that the job provides.
We also hope that some of the president’s men who are engaged in corruption, incompetent will begin to resign because like the EFCC has said, they are being investigated and the long arm of the law will soon catch up with them.
What do you make of the issue of conflicting court judgments?
When court judgments have become merchandise that goes to the highest bidder, you can’t but get these conflicting judgments. The truth is that if the principles of law are applied there is no way that two judges of the same court of concurrent jurisdiction will give divergent judgments about the same case. But, it is no longer the principle of law that is being applied but the discretion of the judges that is determining the merit and demerit of the case based on the volume of inducements some of these judges have been exposed and succumbed to.
So, basically, it is not justice that most courts are dispensing, it is just judgment. So the judgment might in a way have denied the weak justice. And that is why some section of the country is reverting to self-help.
When you go to the executive, they are not executing what will benefit the citizenry, the legislature also refuses to do their oversight functions and call the executive to order. And if these two arms of government are not addressing the need of the people, you go to the judiciary who claims to have no locus-standi to force the government to enforce my request, so it becomes a big problem. It is a crime against humanity to monetize justice.
Look at the erstwhile First Lady; she is justifying the ownership of $15million. That is unreasonable, for crying out loud. How much was her salary as a permanent secretary in Bayelsa State?
The recent raid by the Department of State Security (DSS) on the premises of judges in the country is generating mixed reactions, where do you stand on this?
Our interest is that the thieves should be caught. We have been doing things in a certain way in this country in the earlier regimes which has been unsatisfactory to us so we want a regime that will do things differently. If we are doing things the same way and expect a different result, it will be a demonstration of malady. The present administration has come out to say it wants to fight corruption, and he (Buhari) has not said he will do it the way the previous administrations had been doing it. We need elements of surprise when we are at war. Nigeria is in a state of war against corruption, there is no strategy that is wrong. So, I don’t think they have done anything wrong.
We have said it a lot of times that we need a revolutionary as the president of Nigeria, someone who is going to do things differently in a unique way that will take the alleged criminals by surprise. Don’t forget that these are judges and justices who knew everything about the law. If they have been served more notice than they got, they could go and file a process in the night, they will get one of their colleagues to give them judgments in the night and will flash the injunctions they have gotten from the courts in the faces of the DSS thereby preventing them from carrying out their duty.
The only way to get these knowledgeable alleged suspected criminals into the web of justice is to catch them by surprise using new strategies, if you use the old strategies; they have mastered the escape route. So we are in support of the modus operandi adopted.
Fulani herdsmen menace, what is the way out?
I don’t want to say Fulani herdsmen because I don’t have proof that all herdsmen are Fulani. Having said that, herdsmen in recent times have constituted fatal menace in several rural and even urban areas and it is an emblem of a weakened system in Nigeria that has made it possible for those who are supposed to be ordinary peasants acquire so much fire-power that could overwhelm even the official security agencies. It is one of the indices of a failed state and it is not something you can tackle easily because there is a huge proliferation of small and even sophisticated fire arms in Nigeria at present.
We will be living in denial if we think we can round up all these people at a go lest we risk throwing Nigeria into a full-blown inter-tribal war. Any herdsmen caught with firearms should be arrested and prosecuted.
Grazing fields could be the way out but I don’t subscribe to the idea that lands should be forcefully taken from their owners. Cattle owners should provide grazing areas for their cattle. It can also be a way generating revenue for government as government can create grazing areas and collect taxes from the cattle owners.
It has not been Buhari who has been in power since these people have been killing farm owners— it has been the practice for long even in the Oke-Ogun area of Oyo state. The regime of Muhammadu Buhari who is a Fulani man and a herdsman also should find a lasting solution to the menace of herdsmen or he will end up embarrassing himself because if you have powers and you don’t know how to use it, it goes into history that you are an incompetent leader.
