May we meet you, sir?
I am Hon. Chief Sir Emmanuel Onobraekpeya Okumagba JP. I happened to be the President-General of Okere-Urhobo kingdom and traditionally, I’m the ‘Agwhotu’ of Okere-Urhobo kingdom. I hold several chieftaincy titles; seven in Urhobo land, Igbo land and Yoruba land. That is me. I’m an ex-this and ex-that in Delta State government. I’m a politician.
The President, Muhammadu Buhari has just appointed 43 ministers. Although you are a PDP chieftain, can you say that the appointments were equitably distributed and fairly done?
An Urhobo adage says that it is those who jointly fell a bat tree that jointly share the loot thereafter. President Muhammadu Buhari was elected on the platform of the APC and he has the right to choose from among those who helped him to achieve his victory. And whoever he picks into his cabinet, he just acting to the standard and dictates of the provision of the constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The only persons who can oppose and criticize it will be acceptable is the Senate where the screen, approve and disapprove. They have that power. Whosoever President Buhari picks in his cabinet, it is his prerogative; and it also the prerogative of the Senate to screen, approve or disapprove any of his nominees. And I think that is what is going on. So, nobody should grudge Mr. President for choosing like minds; birds of the same feather.
What explanation could you give to the President’s appointment of two ministers from a state like Anambra which is a PDP state knowing full well that the President is an APC man?
You see, the man has the prerogative of appointing what ought to be round pegs in round holes. And some of these appointees, you and I don’t have their background. So, we don’t know whether or not they are appropriately selected. But the only body that can screen that to know that yes, two may come from this particular state because they are best placed to do the job for Mr. President is the Senate. And when it happens that way, the issue of conscience is no more there. It is the man who thinks that Mr. A and Mr. B can do the job. And that is what happens in the civilized world. You think of who can do the job and not where he or she comes from. If Mr. President is doing that, then it is all well and good. It is his conscience that should prick him that he is not being nepotic. If his conscience tells him he is doing the right thing, then it is all well and good. You and I cannot fault the credentials of a man you don’t know anything about.
Just last week the former Deputy President of the Senate, Senator Ike Ekweremadu was assaulted and harassed by some Nigerians in Nurmberg, Germany when he honoured an invitation to deliver a speech during the annual Igbo Yam Festival celebration in that country. What is your take on that?
The attack is barbaric as far as I’m concerned. You go to another man’s country to harass your kinsman whom you formally invited to attend a programme. It’s wrong. Undermining the fact that the likes of Ekweremadu may have made mistakes to join forces with government to do things that are un-towards to their people; but that is not enough. You are in a foreign land. You have to keep the peace. They ought to keep the peace and show some decorum. They should come home to contribute to the development of their father land rather than staying there to harass a kinsman whom they formally invited. It was like the man was purposely invited to be humiliated. It is uncivil. If the German police take them up they will not be wrong. The German police cannot claim that the hoodlums did not contravene any law. That will be funny because we saw the video clips of the harassment; how he was being pursued and his convoy. How can anyone say that there was no offence in that? Did the people not get permit to use that venue? I saw it; a former Deputy President of Senate being harassed in front of the police. We saw the video recording and the un-towards language they were using against him in front of the police. The scenario cannot be said to be without any intent to intimidate him or harass him.
The RUGA settlement initiative as conceived by the presidency has been generating a lot of controversy across the country. And because of the weight of the controversy, the federal government suspended its implementation. Is there any good side to the Ruga policy?
How can any sane person accept Ruga? It is an insane set up to go and impose yourself on someone else’s farmland in the name of grazing to feed your cow which you will sell back to me? Grazing is a cheap way of feeding your herds; those herds are not public property. They are owned by individuals or group of individuals. So, if you allow them to stray into people’s farms who are still struggling to survive and live on their crops and you want what you are living on to destroy my crops? And you say that is good? In the civilized world, what is done is ranching. An enclosed area is put up. Recently, I was watching CNN programme and I saw cows, so robust. And they were enclosed in cages; they were being fed. There are meals that you can use to feed these herds; herds of cattle, ram and what have you. They don’t go destroying people’s property. Apart from killing plants that have been put there by some persons for their own benefits, anyone coming with herds of cattle is destructive. We have seen it in the past. From my youthful days till now. Of course, urbanization has killed it in several parts of the country because you cannot say you are looking for grazing land in Warri for example. Warri is built up. You can’t have Ruga in Warri or anywhere in Delta State. How do you cage people’s land?
Even the Land Use Decree does not permit that. The federal government has no land by law. It is the states. And if they want to buy land they should come and buy; not just forcefully acquiring people’s land. The only land you can buy is the one in which you can set up a ranch. So, it is crazy to think of Ruga. Rather, they should be thinking of ranching. It is a sine qua non to animal husbandry.
Taking the issue of ruga further, the federal government has defended the policy on the ground that it will usher in peace between the herdsmen and their host communities. But in the absence of Ruga, can peace be achieved if the President choose to talk to his people, the Fulanis.
If Mr. President finds that his kinsmen’s names and activities are being abused by others, he is the chief security officer of this nation. Then he should create an atmosphere of putting down all the evil doers. All those who are perpetrating and taking advantage of the grazing habit of the Fulanis. He should put them in check. The only way to put them in check is to ensure that those arrested are prosecuted. And any criminality in them should be dealt with. Without that, Mr. President will continue to be accused of turning his face away from this evil that the grazing is causing.
Also recently, Mr. President ordered the governor of Central Bank to stop issuing import licenses to those importing food into the country. Would you say that at the moment Nigeria has become self-sufficient in food production?
Any country that is dependent on importation can never grow. But you must prepare a programme such that productivity at home will increase before you ban importation. Is it not a shame that we produce crude oil and we still buy oil from outside at heavily subsidized rate? It is a shame. Why should we be selling our crude oil and buying fuel from those we sell to when we could establish refineries? There is the modular refinery thing that is becoming very popular. I’m yet to see anyone that is established and is functioning. It is the same problem of not making sure that you have what it takes to produce fuel. And that is establishment of more refineries. If we have them then we won’t need to import finished products. We will produce and sell to ourselves. But the case today is that we have started the subsidy regime which we are unable to stop because there will be uproar. And no government wants to face the wrath of the masses who will suffer more when the subsidy is finally removed. But the important thing is that we must prepare productivity before a ban importation of food. Besides, no country can be self-sufficient in everything. There are things you cannot produce and there are others you can produce better than others. So, you go into production of goods and services in which you have comparative advantage. You import what you cannot produce and export what you can produce comparatively. There are things that may be cheaper to import than to produce because the cost may be higher when you produce them. So, the factor of comparative advantage will dictate and determine what you import and what you export.
Sowore, in a bid to express his disdain for the current administration, has come up with RevolutionNow protest. He has been clamped down on by the federal government and thrown into detention on the order of a high court. Some notable Nigerians like Prof. Wole Soyinka and others have offered to join the protest. Do you think the time is ripe for RevolutionNow in Nigeria?
RevolutionNow as far as I’m concerned is meaningless. Revolutions are not things you plan in your bedroom and come out to show off with it because you want to be popular. Revolutions take off from a power point, not just any how. The situation in Nigeria is so fluid that it will be herculian for any revolution that will put Nigeria in its proper perspective to take place. This is because the power structure is made such. Today, the military cannot take over power. They cannot take over power because those in power have built a structure for themselves to ensure sustenance of power in their hands. So, to dream of a revolution now in Nigeria does not make sense as far as I’m concerned. And Nigerians are good at playing to the gallery. I see this as one of such because the history of Sowore himself is known. He has been, right or wrong, a beneficiary of the blunder that has been going on in Nigeria.
The word ‘revolution’ is a revolt against the establishment and no one member of the establishment will fold his arms for revolution that are being kindled today. It doesn’t make sense. Sowore does not impress me.
…but don’t you think he should be released?
You see, when you run counter to the laws of the land, there is a price you pay. The only thing is that any investigation of his activities must be transparent, open and ensure that people do not tie an albatross on his neck for what he has not done. But if what he has done amounts to treason, that is his cup of tea.
The last time we met you spoke about the state government’s plan for the development of Warri/Uvwie and its environs. Not too long thereafter, the government made a law setting it up and constituted a board for that purpose. Do you see the government being serious as to put money into the project? Secondly, are you satisfied with the membership of the agency?
You see, I actually mooted the idea of developing of Warri as a former provincial headquarters. Today, it is the only provincial headquarters that is not a state capital. And state capitals have their allocations, what goes for their development. I mooted the idea to the governor at the town hall meeting sometime early last year at the Federal Government College. And I did explain during that discourse that Warri needed a facelift and that one of its biggest problems is the absence of drains and roads. I also mentioned the fact that Warri people are buyers and sellers. What they need is good roads and drainages rather than a regularly flooded town on account of blockages of natural water ways and low level of drains. And the governor, in his wisdom, bought the idea and in fact, set up what is called a ministerial committee in which three of his commissioners – works, was the chairman, environment and lands and survey, were members. Their permanent secretaries were all members. There were directors also who were members of the committee. One engineer of Itsekiri origin was to represent the Itsekiri interest and I was to represent Urhobo interest. In actual fact, there was an engineer who was to represent the Nigeria Society of Engineers in Warri. For over three and half months we went round all the flood prone areas and the old water ways; we did a thorough movement in Warri and the governor expanded the Warri thing to include Uvwie and part of Udu area.
An interim report was submitted early this year. The committee and the consultant came up with a bill of about N30 billion. While submitting the report, the governor did say that it will not be possible to throw that kind of amount at the committee within a year, knowing the kind of allocation and IGR we get. So, he ordered that the committee, especially the technocrat, should go and put it in phases or prioritize it. The job was done and about two Mondays ago, a final report was submitted. And a week before the submission of the final report, the governor had announced the composition of two boards – the Asaba Capital Territory Development board and Uvwie/Warri and Environs Development board. I know he appointed people of his choice. True to type a governor or anyone in charge of governance has the right to pick those who he believes are capable of putting effect to his proposal. And he appointed five persons from within the state – both for Warri and the State capital.
For me, I cannot question the proprietary of his choice of persons. But what I feel ought to be done which I said to DBS during the inauguration, is that because an indigene of Warri Urhobo in my person, brought the idea and I also have a grasp of the place, someone ought to come from the area because, looking at it, there is a preponderance of Urhobo land in Warri South Local Government Area where the population is. Okere Urhobo kingdom is a big mass of Warri South Local Government Area both in land and the population that live in the area. Agbarha, is another Urhobo kingdom in Warri South is also a large area. We are not interested in the persons but we are interested in the selection amongst the people of the area. That is an issue and I appeal to the governor to add an indigene of Urhobo of Warri because they are an interested party. And being interested party and being the initiator too, they should have one of their own. I’m not saying it must be me, no. But people who know the terrain that is the subjects of the proposal should be included. That is what I think the governor should consider; an indigenous Urhobo of Warri to help in ensuring that the right thing is properly supervised and the areas of error can be corrected and influenced.
You are the President-General of Okere Urhobo kingdom and you have held that position for quite a while now. Recently, the reigning monarch of the kingdom has joined his ancestors. There have been controversies over the installation of a new monarch. We want to ask why there is always controversy each time a new king is to be installed? Isn’t there a way there could be a smooth and peaceful transition into the royal throne of Okere Urhobo kingdom?
Yes, these things happen because, today, monarchy pervades our system. The controversies are more prevalent areas where there are ruling houses and so on and so forth. And the system in Okere Urhobo kingdom is not well grounded yet. There are bound to be such teething problems. But with time, some of these things will become a thing of the past. Honesty and straight-forwardness are important because kingship in Okere Urhobo kingdom is supposed to be to whom the cap fits ought to wear it. Two, it is also supposed to be based on who is most suitable. Ordinarily, I think I share the feeling that the most suitable person should occupy the throne in the absence of father to son.
In determining the most suitable person to the throne of Okere Urhobo kingdom, taking cognizance of the fact that there are three founding fathers that make up the kingdom – Olodi, Ighogbado and Oki, how do the families agree on the most suitable person?
As at today, we have what we call king-makers and the king-makers were selected on the basis of the families they come from. That is today an albatross because the system is not yet well-grounded. And so there are arguments on who submits the names of persons to be made king makers. How are king-makers developed? I know when we had our first king, nine king makers emerged and these king makers came from four of the five families. The only family that didn’t have a king maker is the Itifo family because of some misgivings on account of our W6848 in which one of the families actually was a part of those who took us to court. And so, there was enmity which has not been settled. But four of them have always had at least a king maker. That is now the cross of the matter because some persons believe that only the families of the three founding fathers have the right to be both kings and king makers. But there is another school of thought that feels that yes, there are three founding fathers, there is also the information that two of the other families are all from the Okpeki root and they came later, as we came later, and have become part of the kingdom. They also have a right, even if they cannot be king, they should be part of the selection process of whom will govern them or be their rulers. So, these are controversies that have bedeviled the system thus making it a perennial problem when it is time for selection. In truth, the reigning monarch ought to have arranged to fill the vacancies among the kingmakers, but successive monarchs have not settle down to fill them before their transitions. So, that is the problem that has beset the kingdom causing misgivings.
Any end in sight?
Well, I’m an individual in the kingdom even though I occupy the position of President-General. I cannot on my own solve the problem. But there is need for people to come together. And one way to this is to call all the various interest. The government has a role to play as an arbiter to recognize whoever is chosen as kingmaker.
The governor has made some appointments – commissioners and some other political positions. There are protests from the Okere Urhobo and Agbarha Warri kingdoms that the exercise was lop-sided and they were not considered nor recognized. Do you share that feeling?
You see, the Urhobos of Warri are like a marooned people. They are like second class citizens in the laind of their birth. I want to use myself as an example. If I were not from Urhobo of Warri, I ought to have moved far politically. But because we are a peculiar breed that are usually forgotten, neglected and near down-trodden, the situation has persisted. Time there was when we envisaged the problem that will beset the Urhobo of Warri, that is Agbarha and Okere. Way back in the several constitutional reforms, creation of states and local governments, we have agitated to be allowed to join our kits and kin from Delta Central, but those who wear the garb ‘Warri’ in the face of our presence have consistently prevented us. What is Warri? Where do we call Warri? We are the ground owners of Warri town. That is food for thought.
The Okere Urhobo people have common boundaries with Uvwie through Ugboroke and Ugborikoko. Then the Agbarha people are in common boundary with Ugboroke, Ekpan and Enerhen, Kolokolo and almost in boundary with Udu. That is the real Warri. But those who wear the garb, who are more popular, who are more influential helped to ensure that we are not allowed to join our kits and kin. So, rather being allowed to be with Delta Central where we can compete with our kits and kin, we were left in a Senatorial zone that is predominantly 3i’s – the Ijaws, the Itsekiris and the Isokos.
Let me go a step further, when Governor Okowa won his first tenure, we had a son who had just entered for his fourth tenure for a sixteen year’s reign. And he was the oldest member of the Delta State House of Assembly, Hon. Dennis Omovie. He was eminently qualified to be Speaker of the House and we visited several Urhobo leaders and Isoko to urge them to support our son, Hon. Omovie to be Speaker. Of all of those we met, none of them was honest enough, I don’t want to name some of them except Prof. Oyovbaire who said well it is meant for Urhobos and that he wants to let us know that his Okpe people were also interested in the race and as at that time, the Okpe was on his second tenure. We went to others and finally, we now called on Governor Okowa who was to take office. He was the other person who was honest enough to tell that, look, the Urhobo people said that it was not zone to Urhobo but to Delta Central, which was the truth. We lost out. Our son is a lawyer, even his wife is a lawyer and a judge. So, he was well-placed to have the rudiment of law-making. But we lost out. To make an Okere Urhobo person a Commissioner has always been a sheer providence. One of my nephews became a Commissioner but it was on the basis of sponsorship by his bank. He was sponsored by the bank who felt that the government was not living to expectation in the payment of debt and so, it became a condition that we needed to have our man in government. That was the luck we had. But after some time he was pushed away under very flimsy excuses. Then, the present member representing us became a commissioner in DESOPADEC. I manage to become a Special Adviser and chairman of SUBEB. Each time an Okere Urhobo or Agbarha person gets appointment, it is usually like a lone ranger. So, everybody from Urhobos in Warri crowd him for support and empowerment, unlike in other areas where they have several of their kinsmen in positions.
As at today, all the appointments from Warri South are in the same direction. The preponderance of them are Itsekiris. As at today, the only two of our sons who have appointments are assistants to the governor. So, this is becoming a recurring decimal. I could easily ignore this question but if everybody runs away the truth the situation will persist. I’m told some of our people have worked for the PDP here and so they look forward to being part of the government. Because some of them are not getting, they run to other parties, the APC. That is not healthy for us who are consistent members of the PDP.
Although you are a strong member of the PDP, you are however an Urhobo and a patriotic one at that. What do you make of the election of Senator Ovie Omo-Agege who represents the Urhobos in the Senate, the Deputy President of the Senate?
The election of Senator Ovie Omo-Agege as the Deputy President of the Senate in the 9th Senate is a good development for the Urhobo people in particular and even the South South in general. Senator Omo-Agege has not only elevated the status of the Urhobo people to national status. I thank God for that elevation. I urge all Urhobo irrespective of political parties to support the Deputy Senate President so that he could spread the dividends of democracy to all of us.
